Jordan Peterson How To Deal With Depression

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[Music]

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the question is how do you differentiate

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the utility of behavioral / psycho

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therapeutic treatments for conditions

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like depression versus medical

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treatments okay so the first thing I

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would say is don’t underestimate the

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utility of medical interventions

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depression is a cat catastrophe it

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carries with it a very high suicide rate

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and it also levels people out and it’s

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really hard on their families and so and

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it and it’s physiologically

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extraordinarily damaging and so if

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you’re in a depressive state and it’s

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severe you can try an antidepressant

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you’ll know in a month if it works if it

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works well maybe it’ll help you get your

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life together like we could say well

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maybe you’re depressed because your life

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isn’t very well together could be

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sometimes people are depressed their

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life is just it isn’t fine because no

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one’s life is fine everyone’s life is a

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tragedy but sometimes people have their

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lives in order as much as you could

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expect anyone to have they have friends

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they have an intimate relationship they

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have a career that they like you know

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they’re they’re qualified industrious

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people working hard on what they’re

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doing and and and really playing a

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minimum number of games with themselves

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and they’re terribly depressed

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antidepressant man that’s sometimes that

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will just fix it and so hooray like your

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biological entity if there’s something

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out there that can help you strengthen

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yourself so that you can prevail great

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and you know people you hear everyone

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takes antidepressants you know

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everyone’s taking them just like no one

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takes those bloody things without

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serious consideration half the time I

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spend with my clients who are depressed

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is often the two years long attempt to

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get them to tentatively try an

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antidepressant because they’re so guilty

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that they’re relying on an external

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crutch to sort out their lives that they

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can’t even tolerate it but you know I

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say well look man what if you had

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diabetes you’re not gonna take your

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insulin it’s like you got stressed you

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blew out at your weakest point that’s

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what happens when you get stressed if

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there’s something out there that might

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help you it’s like try it

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for God’s sake you’ll know in a month

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and you just stop

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that doesn’t work now having said that

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you want to do a multi-dimensional

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analysis it’s like well do you have any

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friends do you have an intimate

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relationship or are you pursuing one do

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you have a reasonable career are you as

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educated as you are intelligent do you

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have something useful to do with your

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time outside of work do you have a drug

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or alcohol problem

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are there other behavioral issues like

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sleep dysregulation and lack of eating

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that are contributing to the pathology

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you want to differentiate all of that

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and wherever you can make a behavioral

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intervention so much the better

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but sometimes — you’re dealing with

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people whose lives are so wrecked that

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they don’t even know where to start

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they’re different than the ones who have

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everything in order say and you say well

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try this man maybe you won’t cut your

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throat in the next month because if

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you’re dead it’s going to be hard to

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work with you and so so medical

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interventions anything if you’re sick

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you do what it’s necessary to get better

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and you leave your pride behind if you

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if you have to and that that says

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nothing about the utility of the

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behavioral interventions you want to hit

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the problem with everything you have at

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your disposal but some antidepressants

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especially especially for people whose

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lives are together and who are depressed

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antidepressants can be absolutely

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miraculous so you know when you hear

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about the clinical evidence in their

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favor being iffy and that’s partly

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because the diagnosis of depression

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isn’t very well formulated there’s it’s

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very different to have a terrible life

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than to be depressed and antidepressants

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can only help you so much if you have a

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terrible life so yeah

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you want to stay inside this little map

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because it’s working you want to get

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from point A to point eight point B and

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this is good this indicates that you are

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moving forward that’s the first thing it

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indicates and the second thing it

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indicates which is even more important

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and you’ll never hear this from

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behavioral psychologists is that your

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map is correct so every time you move a

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little bit forward and something that

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you want happens it says oh the game I’m

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playing is the right game and so not

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only does the reward indicate progress

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it indicates that the frame within which

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progress is being calculated is the

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right frame and that’s good because it’s

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the frame that makes things irrelevant

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and you want them to stay irrelevant so

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if you don’t move forward and you start

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to question the frame that’s way worse

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than merely not moving forward

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you get a bad examine what do you think

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what the hell am i doing in university

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anyways it’s like probably that’s not

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the first place you should go with that

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piece of information and you think well

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why why is that worse well as far as I

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can tell your map of you as University

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student is a comprehensive

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representation it tells you what you

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should do every day it kind of tells you

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where you’re going in the future and if

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something emerges as an anomaly you get

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worse grade than you expected and you

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blow that whole map it’s like okay what

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have you been doing for the last four

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years what kind of high school student

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were you how clueless are you about how

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you’re arranging your future what’s your

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identity going to be if you’re not going

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to be a student where are you gonna end

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up in five years it’s like so it’s like

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a that little grade that bad grade is

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like a portal through which snakes can

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crawl and that’s exactly how you respond

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to it especially if you open the door

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too much well maybe this means that I

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shouldn’t be in university well one of

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the rules is don’t you want to you want

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to constrain the anomalous event to the

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minimal necessary domain it’s really

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really important you want to do that

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when you’re arguing with your partner

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which you’ll do all the time we have an

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argument well I should never have

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married you it’s like no no that’s not

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the first response that’s a bad response

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or here’s a really good one you’ve

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always done that sort of thing and you

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always will it’s like oh good great it’s

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like the only answer to that is to hit

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someone because like you’re done right

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you’re you’re like that you’ve always

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like that there isn’t a chance that you

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could be repaired and none of it is

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acceptable it’s like the person’s gonna

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fight with you right away because what

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else are they gonna do so what you want

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to do is you want to minimize it isn’t

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rationalization you want to say okay

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this person did something that disrupted

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our joint map okay what’s the smallest

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possible thing they could do to put it

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back together and you have to know well

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we need to make a plan so you don’t do

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it again or we need to have a discussion

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so that you know that it wasn’t a good

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thing to do but I’m not going to go

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after your whole character I’m gonna say

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when I come home and you’re watching TV

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just come to the door and say hello not

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don’t you love me or something like that

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it’s like no no you just have to walk to

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the door and like give me a hug or

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something and then that’s good enough

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and so then the other person might be

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able to tolerate that much corrective

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information maybe if you’re kind of nice

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about it and you also understand that

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they’re probably going to have something

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equally horrible to say about you in the

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next 15 minutes because you’re gonna do

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something stupid so so you don’t want to

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you don’t want to open the door so that

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every possible snake comes crawling

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through because that’s a pathway to

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depression and you actually see that

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happening in depressed people is that

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every small event produces a cascade

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through their entire value system and

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they end up saying well that’s just

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another reason that I should jump off a

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bridge and they really see it that way

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it’s really awful because they’ve got no

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defenses it’s like well I I didn’t do so

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well in this course it’s like I’m gonna

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get a bad mark in the or in the exam I’m

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gonna get bad mark in the course that’s

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going to screw up my ability to finish

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my degree I’m never going to get into

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the field of my choice it’s just another

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piece of indication that I’m useless and

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that life isn’t worthwhile bang I’m

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going to jump off a bridge and if you’re

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really depressed it’s like each of those

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things hits you with the certainty of

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truth it’s really not good and so you

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want to be careful you want to be

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careful about walking down that pathway

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when you make a mistake you think okay

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what’s the narrowest framework of

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interpretation within which I can I can

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understand this that will require

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minimal behavioral change to decrease

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the probability that it will happen

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again

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it’s Mental Hygiene fund

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yes yeah we’ll get to that we’ll get to

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that that is the next question

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it’s because they don’t exist in

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isolation so and that’s another thing

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frequently when you when you hear

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behavioral accounts of cognitive

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processes they generally only focus on

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as if it’s an isolated thing it’s not it

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exists scalable it’s scalable a bunch of

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ways it’s scalable temporarily because

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what you do now is associated with what

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you’ll do tomorrow and that with what

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you’ll do next week and so forth

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so it has to be scalable temporarily and

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it’s also scalable socially right so it

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has an effect on you that has an effect

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on your family that has an effect on the

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community and so forth and so you don’t

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want to take it’s very difficult to

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think through the effect of your action

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and all those scaling levels

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simultaneously but but you have

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mechanisms that allow you to do that and

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we’ll see I think that the sense of

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let’s assume that you’re not lying to

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yourself constantly so your head isn’t

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full of chaos and garbage and you have

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reasonable relationships with people in

262
00:09:24,550 —> 00:09:29,199
the world I think that this is leaping

263
00:09:27,430 —> 00:09:31,388
way ahead I think that your sense of

264
00:09:29,199 —> 00:09:34,389
meaningful engagement with what you’re

265
00:09:31,389 —> 00:09:36,399
doing is the psychophysiological marker

266
00:09:34,389 —> 00:09:38,380
that you’re acting in a way that takes

267
00:09:36,399 —> 00:09:40,660
all of the stacked representations into

268
00:09:38,380 —> 00:09:43,029
account simultaneously because you’re

269
00:09:40,660 —> 00:09:45,130
you’re you’re like you’re trying to

270
00:09:43,029 —> 00:09:46,600
figure out where you are and you might

271
00:09:45,130 —> 00:09:50,470
think well that means where I am in this

272
00:09:46,600 —> 00:09:54,189
room but look this room is not a simple

273
00:09:50,470 —> 00:09:55,810
thing right it’s nested it’s it’s a

274
00:09:54,189 —> 00:09:57,730
subset of the university that’s a subset

275
00:09:55,810 —> 00:10:00,339
of society it’s a subset of your life

276
00:09:57,730 —> 00:10:01,630
the room is a complicated thing and you

277
00:10:00,339 —> 00:10:03,819
need to figure out where you should be

278
00:10:01,630 —> 00:10:05,439
in the room and you can’t do that sure

279
00:10:03,819 —> 00:10:08,740
surely with perception because all you

280
00:10:05,439 —> 00:10:12,189
see is me and some of the wall right

281
00:10:08,740 —> 00:10:14,620
it’s you’ve got this little narrow this

282
00:10:12,189 —> 00:10:16,480
little narrow portal and so you can’t

283
00:10:14,620 —> 00:10:19,059
really rely on your perceptions to

284
00:10:16,480 —> 00:10:21,610
orient you but you do orient yourself

285
00:10:19,059 —> 00:10:23,860
and I think what you do is you its

286
00:10:21,610 —> 00:10:26,470
engagement it’s like does this seem

287
00:10:23,860 —> 00:10:29,290
meaningful and deep and engaging yes

288
00:10:26,470 —> 00:10:30,880
then it’s an indication that it’s

289
00:10:29,290 —> 00:10:33,610
serving multiple master

290
00:10:30,880 —> 00:10:36,730
simultaneously so both maybe both

291
00:10:33,610 —> 00:10:38,890
socially and also temporarily and so I

292
00:10:36,730 —> 00:10:41,800
think the sense of meaning is actually

293
00:10:38,890 —> 00:10:43,900
an instinct that Orient’s people in time

294
00:10:41,800 —> 00:10:45,729
and space it’s not an empathy nomina

295
00:10:43,900 —> 00:10:47,590
it’s the most fundamental form of

296
00:10:45,730 —> 00:10:49,180
perception and that’s the only

297
00:10:47,590 —> 00:10:51,940
optimistic thought that I’ve ever been

298
00:10:49,180 —> 00:10:53,650
able to derive from psychology is that

299
00:10:51,940 —> 00:10:55,300
that actually could be true it could be

300
00:10:53,650 —> 00:10:58,510
that the sense of meaning is an

301
00:10:55,300 —> 00:11:00,010
orienting reflex and that would be

302
00:10:58,510 —> 00:11:02,620
wonderful if it was true because it

303
00:11:00,010 —> 00:11:05,319
would make it real you know and it’s one

304
00:11:02,620 —> 00:11:07,180
of the you know the one of the

305
00:11:05,320 —> 00:11:08,470
devastating elements of nihilism is

306
00:11:07,180 —> 00:11:09,670
something like well who the hell cares

307
00:11:08,470 —> 00:11:10,960
what you’re doing what difference is it

308
00:11:09,670 —> 00:11:12,370
going to make in a million years it’s

309
00:11:10,960 —> 00:11:14,260
like your sense of meaning is just an

310
00:11:12,370 —> 00:11:16,390
illusion you know you’re you’re a

311
00:11:14,260 —> 00:11:18,370
limited creature in a limited place and

312
00:11:16,390 —> 00:11:20,319
nothing you do really matters it’s like

313
00:11:18,370 —> 00:11:22,630
that’s a powerful argument especially if

314
00:11:20,320 —> 00:11:25,030
you’re an objective materialist and a

315
00:11:22,630 —> 00:11:27,310
reductionist it’s a killer argument but

316
00:11:25,030 —> 00:11:29,740
it looks to me like it’s wrong it’s

317
00:11:27,310 —> 00:11:31,599
actually wrong because meaning looks to

318
00:11:29,740 —> 00:11:33,820
me like it’s an actual phenomena it does

319
00:11:31,600 —> 00:11:36,130
say that your your position properly

320
00:11:33,820 —> 00:11:41,350
between chaos and order or something

321
00:11:36,130 —> 00:11:44,170
like that it’s real so well so we’ll see

322
00:11:41,350 —> 00:11:47,680
we’re going to develop that argument

323
00:11:44,170 —> 00:11:48,939
because if if it’s real you want to know

324
00:11:47,680 —> 00:11:49,689
that because it gives you something to

325
00:11:48,940 —> 00:11:52,420
stand on

326
00:11:49,690 —> 00:11:54,430
you know maybe it’s as real as pain but

327
00:11:52,420 —> 00:11:56,260
it’s not pain it’s something positive

328
00:11:54,430 —> 00:11:59,800
and you need something positive that you

329
00:11:56,260 —> 00:12:02,680
can rely on alright so and the

330
00:11:59,800 —> 00:12:05,050
psychoanalysts I think it air too much

331
00:12:02,680 —> 00:12:06,880
on the side of the subject they tend to

332
00:12:05,050 —> 00:12:09,099
think that too much of you is inside of

333
00:12:06,880 —> 00:12:12,340
you and too little of you is outside of

334
00:12:09,100 —> 00:12:13,870
you and part of the reason I believe

335
00:12:12,340 —> 00:12:16,740
that is because of my clinical

336
00:12:13,870 —> 00:12:19,120
experience I love the psychoanalyst man

337
00:12:16,740 —> 00:12:22,780
they’re brilliant they’re brilliant

338
00:12:19,120 —> 00:12:25,270
they’re deep they grapple with real

339
00:12:22,780 —> 00:12:27,069
problems like with the problems when

340
00:12:25,270 —> 00:12:28,780
people have real problems and I mean

341
00:12:27,070 —> 00:12:31,000
profound problems they’re really

342
00:12:28,780 —> 00:12:33,069
profound moral problems or problems of

343
00:12:31,000 —> 00:12:34,570
good and evil really you know there are

344
00:12:33,070 —> 00:12:38,830
things going on in their family that are

345
00:12:34,570 —> 00:12:41,290
so terrible that well that there there

346
00:12:38,830 —> 00:12:44,290
are sometimes fatal you know lie upon

347
00:12:41,290 —> 00:12:46,990
lie upon lie upon lie for

348
00:12:44,290 —> 00:12:59,110
Cades and decades and decades it’s awful

349
00:12:46,990 —> 00:13:00,730
and that’s not exactly inside them it’s

350
00:12:59,110 —> 00:13:03,699
out there in the world and lots of the

351
00:13:00,730 —> 00:13:08,230
people that I see very famous critic of

352
00:13:03,699 —> 00:13:12,609
psychology I can’t remember his name but

353
00:13:08,230 —> 00:13:15,190
I probably will criticize the practice

354
00:13:12,610 —> 00:13:17,980
of psychology quite effectively in the

355
00:13:15,190 —> 00:13:22,569
leave in the early 60s the myth of

356
00:13:17,980 —> 00:13:24,759
mental illness by Thomas says Szasz it’s

357
00:13:22,569 —> 00:13:26,889
classic you should read it if you’re

358
00:13:24,759 —> 00:13:29,709
interested in psychology read it like

359
00:13:26,889 —> 00:13:32,259
it’s a classic and he basically said

360
00:13:29,709 —> 00:13:35,529
most people have problems in living they

361
00:13:32,259 —> 00:13:38,259
don’t have psychological problems and so

362
00:13:35,529 —> 00:13:41,050
I’ve experienced despite my love for the

363
00:13:38,259 —> 00:13:43,690
psychoanalysts very frequently what I’m

364
00:13:41,050 —> 00:13:47,490
doing as a therapist is helping people

365
00:13:43,690 —> 00:13:50,649
have a life that would work you know and

366
00:13:47,490 —> 00:13:53,610
you can parameterize that it’s like what

367
00:13:50,649 —> 00:13:55,720
do you need how about some friends that

368
00:13:53,610 —> 00:13:57,250
people kind of like that how about an

369
00:13:55,720 —> 00:13:59,199
intimate relationship with someone that

370
00:13:57,250 —> 00:14:01,720
you can trust that maybe has a future

371
00:13:59,199 —> 00:14:03,819
that’d be good how about a career that

372
00:14:01,720 —> 00:14:06,550
puts you in a dominant Archy somewhere

373
00:14:03,819 —> 00:14:08,050
so at least you’ve got some possibility

374
00:14:06,550 —> 00:14:10,810
of rising some possibility of

375
00:14:08,050 —> 00:14:13,389
stabilizing yourself and our schedule in

376
00:14:10,810 —> 00:14:15,430
a routine because no one can live

377
00:14:13,389 —> 00:14:18,279
without a routine you just forget that

378
00:14:15,430 —> 00:14:20,349
if you guys don’t have a routine I would

379
00:14:18,279 —> 00:14:23,110
recommend like you get one going because

380
00:14:20,350 —> 00:14:25,420
you cannot be mentally healthy without a

381
00:14:23,110 —> 00:14:27,850
routine you need to pick a time to get

382
00:14:25,420 —> 00:14:30,310
up whatever time you want but pick one

383
00:14:27,850 —> 00:14:32,769
and stick to it because otherwise you

384
00:14:30,310 —> 00:14:36,040
dis regulate your circadian rhythms and

385
00:14:32,769 —> 00:14:38,829
they regulate your mood and eat

386
00:14:36,040 —> 00:14:40,750
something in the morning I had lots of

387
00:14:38,829 —> 00:14:42,279
clients who’ve had anxiety disorders I

388
00:14:40,750 —> 00:14:45,910
had one client who was literally

389
00:14:42,279 —> 00:14:47,410
starving very smart girl sheet there’s

390
00:14:45,910 —> 00:14:49,149
very little that she liked she kind of

391
00:14:47,410 —> 00:14:51,189
tried to subsist on like half a cup of

392
00:14:49,149 —> 00:14:53,680
rice a day she came to me and said I

393
00:14:51,189 —> 00:14:55,569
have no energy I come home all I want to

394
00:14:53,680 —> 00:14:57,870
do is watch the same movie over and over

395
00:14:55,569 —> 00:14:59,550
what like is that weird

396
00:14:57,870 —> 00:15:01,680
and I thought well it depends on how

397
00:14:59,550 —> 00:15:04,680
hard you work you know it’s a little

398
00:15:01,680 —> 00:15:07,229
weird but whatever it’s familiar you’re

399
00:15:04,680 —> 00:15:10,260
looking for comfort so I did an analysis

400
00:15:07,230 —> 00:15:12,630
of her diet it’s like three quarters of

401
00:15:10,260 —> 00:15:14,340
a cup of rice it’s like you’re starving

402
00:15:12,630 —> 00:15:18,450
eat something

403
00:15:14,340 —> 00:15:22,080
you know you’ll feel better

404
00:15:18,450 —> 00:15:24,030
so she modified her diet and you’re all

405
00:15:22,080 —> 00:15:29,310
her anxiety went away and she had some

406
00:15:24,030 —> 00:15:33,060
energy it’s like yeah you got to eat so

407
00:15:29,310 —> 00:15:34,859
a schedule that’s a good thing man your

408
00:15:33,060 —> 00:15:37,199
brain will thank you for it it will

409
00:15:34,860 —> 00:15:39,510
stabilize your nervous system with it’s

410
00:15:37,200 —> 00:15:41,250
a bit of a plan that’s a good thing you

411
00:15:39,510 —> 00:15:43,890
need a career you need something

412
00:15:41,250 —> 00:15:45,810
productive to do with your time you need

413
00:15:43,890 —> 00:15:48,449
to regulate your use of drugs and

414
00:15:45,810 —> 00:15:51,920
alcohol most particularly alcohol

415
00:15:48,450 —> 00:15:51,920
because that does even a lot of people

416
00:15:52,880 —> 00:15:57,630
you need a family like the family you

417
00:15:55,590 —> 00:15:59,490
have your parents and all that be nice

418
00:15:57,630 —> 00:16:00,960
if you all got along you could work on

419
00:15:59,490 —> 00:16:02,610
that that’s a good thing to work on and

420
00:16:00,960 —> 00:16:06,120
then you know you probably need children

421
00:16:02,610 —> 00:16:09,390
at some point that’s life that’s what

422
00:16:06,120 —> 00:16:11,970
life is and if you’re missing you know

423
00:16:09,390 —> 00:16:14,120
you may have a good reason to not be

424
00:16:11,970 —> 00:16:17,850
operating on one of those dimensions

425
00:16:14,120 —> 00:16:20,130
it’s not mandatory but I can tell you

426
00:16:17,850 —> 00:16:22,260
that if you’re not operating reasonably

427
00:16:20,130 —> 00:16:23,850
well on four I think I mentioned six if

428
00:16:22,260 —> 00:16:27,000
you’re not operating reasonably well on

429
00:16:23,850 —> 00:16:30,200
at least three of them there’s no way

430
00:16:27,000 —> 00:16:33,600
you’re going to be psychologically

431
00:16:30,200 —> 00:16:35,340
thriving and that’s more pragmatic in

432
00:16:33,600 —> 00:16:37,920
some sense than psychological right

433
00:16:35,340 —> 00:16:40,560
human beings have a nature there’s

434
00:16:37,920 —> 00:16:42,510
things we need and if we have them well

435
00:16:40,560 —> 00:16:44,699
that’s good and if we don’t have them

436
00:16:42,510 —> 00:16:47,250
well then we feel the lack and so

437
00:16:44,700 —> 00:16:49,350
behaviorists behavioral psychologists

438
00:16:47,250 —> 00:16:52,340
concentrate a lot more on that sort of

439
00:16:49,350 —> 00:16:55,290
thing you know it’s practical it’s like

440
00:16:52,340 —> 00:16:56,490
strategizing make a career plan figure

441
00:16:55,290 —> 00:16:58,140
out how to negotiate because that’s

442
00:16:56,490 —> 00:17:00,300
bloody important figure out how to say

443
00:16:58,140 —> 00:17:03,210
what you need figure out how to tell the

444
00:17:00,300 —> 00:17:08,190
truth to people figure out how to listen

445
00:17:03,210 —> 00:17:09,390
to your partner in particular because if

446
00:17:08,190 —> 00:17:11,700
you listen to them they will actually

447
00:17:09,390 —> 00:17:13,260
tell you what they want and

448
00:17:11,700 —> 00:17:15,360
sometimes you can give it to them and

449
00:17:13,260 —> 00:17:18,359
maybe they’ll return the favor and if

450
00:17:15,359 —> 00:17:20,129
you practice that for like 15 years well

451
00:17:18,359 —> 00:17:22,709
then maybe you’re constantly giving each

452
00:17:20,130 —> 00:17:24,660
other what you want well hooray that

453
00:17:22,710 —> 00:17:28,470
would be good and then there’s two of

454
00:17:24,660 —> 00:17:30,230
you under all circumstances and it’s

455
00:17:28,470 —> 00:17:32,640
better to have two brains than one

456
00:17:30,230 —> 00:17:36,030
because people think differently because

457
00:17:32,640 —> 00:17:38,790
of their temperament mostly and so the

458
00:17:36,030 —> 00:17:41,520
negotiation is where the wisdom arises

459
00:17:38,790 —> 00:17:42,930
and it’s part of the transformation the

460
00:17:41,520 —> 00:17:45,030
psychological transformation that’s

461
00:17:42,930 —> 00:17:47,370
attendant on an intimate relationship

462
00:17:45,030 —> 00:17:50,550
and one of the fundamental purposes of a

463
00:17:47,370 —> 00:17:52,620
long-term intimate relationship so we’re

464
00:17:50,550 —> 00:17:54,210
starting to be able to put the traits to

465
00:17:52,620 —> 00:17:56,100
sort of nail the traits down to their

466
00:17:54,210 —> 00:17:59,400
underlying biology with regards to

467
00:17:56,100 —> 00:18:00,870
neuroticism well if you’re high in

468
00:17:59,400 —> 00:18:03,570
neuroticism you’re more sensitive to

469
00:18:00,870 —> 00:18:05,280
anxiety and that’s it regulated at least

470
00:18:03,570 —> 00:18:07,470
in part by the hippocampus and and

471
00:18:05,280 —> 00:18:09,030
generated in part by the amygdala

472
00:18:07,470 —> 00:18:11,730
there’s another part of the brain called

473
00:18:09,030 —> 00:18:13,770
the periagua aqueduct or gray that seems

474
00:18:11,730 —> 00:18:16,440
to be associated with the experience of

475
00:18:13,770 —> 00:18:19,260
pain and pain is quite a complex

476
00:18:16,440 —> 00:18:22,140
phenomena depression is pain like grief

477
00:18:19,260 —> 00:18:25,020
is pain like social isolation is pain

478
00:18:22,140 —> 00:18:27,210
like disappointment is pain like there’s

479
00:18:25,020 —> 00:18:29,300
anxiety components to that too and so

480
00:18:27,210 —> 00:18:31,560
neuroticism seems to be something like

481
00:18:29,300 —> 00:18:34,710
threshold for activation in those

482
00:18:31,560 —> 00:18:36,810
negative emotion systems so if you’re

483
00:18:34,710 —> 00:18:38,700
higher in neuroticism one unit of

484
00:18:36,810 —> 00:18:40,409
uncertainty might produce let’s say

485
00:18:38,700 —> 00:18:42,570
three units of psychophysiological

486
00:18:40,410 —> 00:18:44,610
response whereas if you’re lower in

487
00:18:42,570 —> 00:18:45,990
neuroticism one unit of uncertainty

488
00:18:44,610 —> 00:18:48,300
might produce one unit of psycho

489
00:18:45,990 —> 00:18:50,070
physiological response it’s hard you

490
00:18:48,300 —> 00:18:52,320
know obviously that’s a simplified

491
00:18:50,070 —> 00:18:54,689
schematic but there’s variability

492
00:18:52,320 —> 00:18:56,700
because if something unexpected or her

493
00:18:54,690 —> 00:18:59,010
threatening happens to you it isn’t

494
00:18:56,700 —> 00:19:01,440
obvious how upset you should get one

495
00:18:59,010 —> 00:19:02,970
answer what might be brush it off it’s

496
00:19:01,440 —> 00:19:05,850
nothing another answer might be

497
00:19:02,970 —> 00:19:07,170
it’s a bloody catastrophe and often when

498
00:19:05,850 —> 00:19:09,209
something uncertain or threatening

499
00:19:07,170 —> 00:19:11,520
occurs you don’t have enough information

500
00:19:09,210 —> 00:19:14,250
at your disposal to make a full

501
00:19:11,520 —> 00:19:16,260
determination of the potential import of

502
00:19:14,250 —> 00:19:18,510
this of the circumstance especially if

503
00:19:16,260 —> 00:19:20,520
it’s uncertain and so then you have to

504
00:19:18,510 —> 00:19:22,680
guess at how upset you should be and

505
00:19:20,520 —> 00:19:25,230
where you are on the normal distribution

506
00:19:22,680 —> 00:19:27,929
with regards to trait neuroticism say

507
00:19:25,230 —> 00:19:31,650
that sort of determines what your guests

508
00:19:27,929 —> 00:19:33,480
on average is going to be so you know

509
00:19:31,650 —> 00:19:35,929
the other with conscientiousness say you

510
00:19:33,480 —> 00:19:38,580
might say well how hard should you work

511
00:19:35,929 —> 00:19:41,160
well that’s a really difficult question

512
00:19:38,580 —> 00:19:42,780
if you’re gonna die tomorrow and then

513
00:19:41,160 —> 00:19:46,110
you probably shouldn’t work very hard

514
00:19:42,780 —> 00:19:48,090
today at all so one thing you might say

515
00:19:46,110 —> 00:19:50,040
is that the degree to which you should

516
00:19:48,090 —> 00:19:51,809
work hard is dependent on your

517
00:19:50,040 —> 00:19:53,668
assumptions about the stability of the

518
00:19:51,809 —> 00:19:57,270
future we actually know this to be true

519
00:19:53,669 —> 00:19:59,790
because if you put people in wildly

520
00:19:57,270 —> 00:20:01,620
uncertain circumstances they discount

521
00:19:59,790 —> 00:20:03,510
the future which is exactly what you

522
00:20:01,620 —> 00:20:06,840
should do right it’s only makes sense to

523
00:20:03,510 —> 00:20:09,090
store up goods for future consumption if

524
00:20:06,840 —> 00:20:11,280
the future is likely to be very similar

525
00:20:09,090 —> 00:20:13,100
to the past and the present you need a

526
00:20:11,280 —> 00:20:15,809
stable society for that and

527
00:20:13,100 —> 00:20:18,030
conscientiousness only works in a stable

528
00:20:15,809 —> 00:20:19,799
society because all you do otherwise if

529
00:20:18,030 —> 00:20:21,780
you’re piling up goods which is kind of

530
00:20:19,799 —> 00:20:23,520
what conscientious people do is leaving

531
00:20:21,780 —> 00:20:25,950
them there for the criminals to take or

532
00:20:23,520 —> 00:20:27,450
waiting for the next chaotic upheaval to

533
00:20:25,950 —> 00:20:30,000
wipe out everything that you’ve stored

534
00:20:27,450 —> 00:20:32,309
and so even conscientiousness is a kind

535
00:20:30,000 —> 00:20:33,650
of guess hard-working people say well

536
00:20:32,309 —> 00:20:35,910
you know

537
00:20:33,650 —> 00:20:37,470
sacrifice the present for the future

538
00:20:35,910 —> 00:20:38,820
that’s great as long as the future is

539
00:20:37,470 —> 00:20:40,350
going to be there and you can predict it

540
00:20:38,820 —> 00:20:42,090
but if it’s not going to be there and

541
00:20:40,350 —> 00:20:44,340
it’s unpredictable then the right

542
00:20:42,090 —> 00:20:45,928
response is take what you can take right

543
00:20:44,340 —> 00:20:48,120
now well the getting’s good

544
00:20:45,929 —> 00:20:49,770
now you know obviously there are

545
00:20:48,120 —> 00:20:53,040
troubles with that too it I’m speaking

546
00:20:49,770 —> 00:20:55,770
you know I’m offering rough rules of

547
00:20:53,040 —> 00:20:58,320
thumb but I’m trying to provide you with

548
00:20:55,770 —> 00:21:00,120
some indication of how and why these

549
00:20:58,320 —> 00:21:02,460
difference in value structures exist

550
00:21:00,120 —> 00:21:04,889
because they’re applicable in different

551
00:21:02,460 —> 00:21:06,600
environments you know sometimes in a

552
00:21:04,890 —> 00:21:08,669
dangerous social environment it’s not

553
00:21:06,600 —> 00:21:10,740
obvious that being an extroverted person

554
00:21:08,669 —> 00:21:12,660
is a good idea because extroverted

555
00:21:10,740 —> 00:21:14,790
people they stand out especially if

556
00:21:12,660 —> 00:21:16,679
they’re extroverted and creative right

557
00:21:14,790 —> 00:21:18,659
because not only are they noisy and and

558
00:21:16,679 —> 00:21:21,840
dominant and assertive they’re also

559
00:21:18,660 —> 00:21:23,970
colorful and and flamboyant and

560
00:21:21,840 —> 00:21:26,610
provocative what happens to people is

561
00:21:23,970 —> 00:21:28,380
that as they move towards zero positive

562
00:21:26,610 —> 00:21:30,330
feedback loops get set up so they’re

563
00:21:28,380 —> 00:21:32,160
more likely to hit zero and as they move

564
00:21:30,330 —> 00:21:33,809
away from zero positive feedback loops

565
00:21:32,160 —> 00:21:36,090
get set up so that they’re increasingly

566
00:21:33,809 —> 00:21:38,530
more likely to move away from zero so

567
00:21:36,090 —> 00:21:39,908
here’s an example let’s say

568
00:21:38,530 —> 00:21:41,200
you’re not doing too bad so maybe you’re

569
00:21:39,909 —> 00:21:45,429
in the middle of the normal distribution

570
00:21:41,200 —> 00:21:47,860
then you lose your job okay and so let’s

571
00:21:45,429 —> 00:21:49,360
say you’re a conscientious person and we

572
00:21:47,860 —> 00:21:50,830
can say just for the sake of argument

573
00:21:49,360 —> 00:21:52,360
that you lose your job because of mass

574
00:21:50,830 —> 00:21:53,370
layoffs in your company so it has

575
00:21:52,360 —> 00:21:55,389
nothing to do with you it’s

576
00:21:53,370 —> 00:21:57,549
fundamentally it’s just like luck of the

577
00:21:55,390 —> 00:22:00,700
draw basically but then what happens to

578
00:21:57,549 —> 00:22:02,260
you well if you’re conscientious you’re

579
00:22:00,700 —> 00:22:04,299
gonna you’re gonna go after yourself

580
00:22:02,260 —> 00:22:05,830
pretty hard so you’re gonna and

581
00:22:04,299 —> 00:22:07,539
especially if you’re also high in

582
00:22:05,830 —> 00:22:08,830
neuroticism it’s gonna depress you to

583
00:22:07,539 —> 00:22:11,020
lose your job and maybe you’re in a

584
00:22:08,830 —> 00:22:12,129
situation where you just for one reason

585
00:22:11,020 —> 00:22:13,750
or another you don’t have that many

586
00:22:12,130 —> 00:22:15,460
other opportunities now maybe you should

587
00:22:13,750 —> 00:22:17,230
look for them but maybe you’re in a

588
00:22:15,460 —> 00:22:19,240
depressed strata of the economy or

589
00:22:17,230 —> 00:22:21,159
you’re geographically located somewhere

590
00:22:19,240 —> 00:22:23,830
that makes moving difficult or so on and

591
00:22:21,159 —> 00:22:25,299
so forth you know so but you you lose a

592
00:22:23,830 —> 00:22:27,850
job and then you start to get depressed

593
00:22:25,299 —> 00:22:28,658
because of that well then as you start

594
00:22:27,850 —> 00:22:30,280
to get depressed

595
00:22:28,659 —> 00:22:32,289
you know it decreases the probability

596
00:22:30,280 —> 00:22:34,210
that you’re gonna look for a job but

597
00:22:32,289 —> 00:22:36,370
also maybe starts to put stress on your

598
00:22:34,210 —> 00:22:37,809
family and it also starts to decrease

599
00:22:36,370 —> 00:22:39,789
the probability that you’re in going to

600
00:22:37,809 —> 00:22:41,950
engage in positive social interaction so

601
00:22:39,789 —> 00:22:43,840
now not only are you unemployed and

602
00:22:41,950 —> 00:22:45,610
suffering from economic stress but your

603
00:22:43,840 —> 00:22:47,350
marriage is starting to suffer and

604
00:22:45,610 —> 00:22:48,789
you’re starting to isolate yourself from

605
00:22:47,350 —> 00:22:50,289
your friends and then of course as your

606
00:22:48,789 —> 00:22:51,879
marriage suffers and the stress builds

607
00:22:50,289 —> 00:22:53,169
up then that’s going to make you more

608
00:22:51,880 —> 00:22:54,640
depressed and that’s going to keep you

609
00:22:53,169 —> 00:22:55,630
even farther away from your friends and

610
00:22:54,640 —> 00:22:57,460
that’s going to decrease the likelihood

611
00:22:55,630 —> 00:22:59,380
that you’re gonna have enough positive

612
00:22:57,460 —> 00:23:01,480
emotion and enthusiasm to look for

613
00:22:59,380 —> 00:23:02,860
another job and then you know maybe you

614
00:23:01,480 —> 00:23:04,960
want to add a bit of a drinking problem

615
00:23:02,860 —> 00:23:06,939
to that just for fun and you can see

616
00:23:04,960 —> 00:23:09,159
that you can get a spiral going that’s

617
00:23:06,940 —> 00:23:11,200
just taking you down right and there’s

618
00:23:09,159 —> 00:23:14,620
all sorts of things because lots of

619
00:23:11,200 —> 00:23:16,809
times people conceptualize let’s say you

620
00:23:14,620 —> 00:23:20,559
know you’re unemployed guy and you go to

621
00:23:16,809 —> 00:23:22,000
counseling and you get a diagnosis of

622
00:23:20,559 —> 00:23:23,500
depression and the thing about a

623
00:23:22,000 —> 00:23:25,179
diagnosis of depression it’s sort of

624
00:23:23,500 —> 00:23:26,770
like the assumption is there’s something

625
00:23:25,179 —> 00:23:28,720
gone wrong with your psychological

626
00:23:26,770 —> 00:23:30,490
structure it’s like if you’re unemployed

627
00:23:28,720 —> 00:23:32,020
and you you’re depressed it isn’t

628
00:23:30,490 —> 00:23:34,000
obvious at all that the problem is in

629
00:23:32,020 —> 00:23:35,770
your head you know you know what I mean

630
00:23:34,000 —> 00:23:37,600
it’s it doesn’t it doesn’t even obvious

631
00:23:35,770 —> 00:23:40,270
that it’s a psychological problem it’s

632
00:23:37,600 —> 00:23:42,879
just a problem and problems can take you

633
00:23:40,270 —> 00:23:44,830
out and so the you know if you’re

634
00:23:42,880 —> 00:23:46,150
unemployed and you’re under economic

635
00:23:44,830 —> 00:23:48,309
stress and your marriage is starting to

636
00:23:46,150 —> 00:23:50,200
shake and you’re isolating yourself from

637
00:23:48,309 —> 00:23:52,300
your friends and you’re less likely to

638
00:23:50,200 —> 00:23:54,100
be motivated to go look for a job you

639
00:23:52,300 —> 00:23:55,810
sort of think about that as a depressive

640
00:23:54,100 —> 00:23:58,870
spiral but you can also think of it as a

641
00:23:55,810 —> 00:24:01,149
conspiracy in some sense of external

642
00:23:58,870 —> 00:24:02,409
forces that are augering you into the

643
00:24:01,150 —> 00:24:04,870
ground and we don’t tend to

644
00:24:02,410 —> 00:24:07,300
conceptualize psychological disorders

645
00:24:04,870 —> 00:24:09,340
that way but we should because lots of

646
00:24:07,300 —> 00:24:10,840
times when people are suffering from

647
00:24:09,340 —> 00:24:12,970
something that you could describe in

648
00:24:10,840 —> 00:24:15,310
Psychological terminology and depression

649
00:24:12,970 —> 00:24:16,390
is a very good example of that it isn’t

650
00:24:15,310 —> 00:24:18,639
obvious that there’s something wrong

651
00:24:16,390 —> 00:24:20,950
with them psychologically often they

652
00:24:18,640 —> 00:24:23,650
just are in trouble and there isn’t a

653
00:24:20,950 —> 00:24:26,310
category in in psychological diagnosis

654
00:24:23,650 —> 00:24:29,500
for client in serious trouble but my

655
00:24:26,310 —> 00:24:31,629
experience has been almost without

656
00:24:29,500 —> 00:24:33,310
exception that the people that come to

657
00:24:31,630 —> 00:24:34,690
see me come to see me because

658
00:24:33,310 —> 00:24:35,919
something’s gone wrong with their life

659
00:24:34,690 —> 00:24:38,290
not because they have a psychological

660
00:24:35,920 —> 00:24:41,080
problem now you could say well there are

661
00:24:38,290 —> 00:24:42,909
psychological inadequacies such as they

662
00:24:41,080 —> 00:24:44,949
might be are interfering with their

663
00:24:42,910 —> 00:24:47,620
ability to recover or maybe even served

664
00:24:44,950 —> 00:24:49,600
as precursors to you know increase the

665
00:24:47,620 —> 00:24:52,090
probability of the catastrophe and so a

666
00:24:49,600 —> 00:24:54,219
well-functioning personality has all the

667
00:24:52,090 —> 00:24:55,870
micro routines in place that’s actually

668
00:24:54,220 —> 00:24:57,490
something that you help people with if

669
00:24:55,870 —> 00:24:59,379
you’re a behavioral therapist because

670
00:24:57,490 —> 00:25:01,270
one of the things you assume if you’re a

671
00:24:59,380 —> 00:25:03,130
behavioral therapist is that sometimes

672
00:25:01,270 —> 00:25:05,740
the reason people aren’t doing things is

673
00:25:03,130 —> 00:25:07,540
because they don’t know how you know

674
00:25:05,740 —> 00:25:09,520
sometimes maybe the person is depressed

675
00:25:07,540 —> 00:25:11,409
but potentially high-functioning they

676
00:25:09,520 —> 00:25:13,540
got all the damn micro routines they’re

677
00:25:11,410 —> 00:25:14,800
well socialized they’re just dormant you

678
00:25:13,540 —> 00:25:16,600
got to get them awake again and

679
00:25:14,800 —> 00:25:18,580
implementing them but sometimes you get

680
00:25:16,600 —> 00:25:21,159
someone in your practice say who’s just

681
00:25:18,580 —> 00:25:22,870
being neglected like you cannot believe

682
00:25:21,160 —> 00:25:24,370
right the parents never paid any

683
00:25:22,870 —> 00:25:25,840
attention to them or maybe just punished

684
00:25:24,370 —> 00:25:28,360
them every time they did something good

685
00:25:25,840 —> 00:25:29,649
that’s really fun and then you know they

686
00:25:28,360 —> 00:25:34,360
didn’t make friends and so they’re

687
00:25:29,650 —> 00:25:36,010
really really big and and and poorly

688
00:25:34,360 —> 00:25:37,750
articulated and so then what you do is

689
00:25:36,010 —> 00:25:39,270
you work at the bottom of the micro

690
00:25:37,750 —> 00:25:41,680
routines and get them to practice

691
00:25:39,270 —> 00:25:43,420
building up all these little attributes

692
00:25:41,680 —> 00:25:44,920
that they didn’t build up and you know

693
00:25:43,420 —> 00:25:46,960
one of the things you can think about in

694
00:25:44,920 —> 00:25:48,430
terms of character development is so now

695
00:25:46,960 —> 00:25:50,020
maybe understand something about your

696
00:25:48,430 —> 00:25:51,610
own personality you might say well what

697
00:25:50,020 —> 00:25:54,310
could you do to improve your personality

698
00:25:51,610 —> 00:25:56,290
and the answer is develop some of the

699
00:25:54,310 —> 00:25:58,450
micro routines on the other side of the

700
00:25:56,290 —> 00:26:00,250
personality distribution so if you’re

701
00:25:58,450 —> 00:26:01,630
disagreeable as hell maybe you could

702
00:26:00,250 —> 00:26:04,030
start learning how to do nice things for

703
00:26:01,630 —> 00:26:05,530
people and that actually works by the

704
00:26:04,030 —> 00:26:06,260
way so if you take disagreeable people

705
00:26:05,530 —> 00:26:07,790
who are depressed

706
00:26:06,260 —> 00:26:09,200
and you get them doing nice things for

707
00:26:07,790 —> 00:26:10,940
other people their depression tends to

708
00:26:09,200 —> 00:26:12,860
lift but then by the same token if

709
00:26:10,940 —> 00:26:15,320
you’re agreeable then you should

710
00:26:12,860 —> 00:26:16,909
practice doing some things for yourself

711
00:26:15,320 —> 00:26:18,830
and being more tough minded in your

712
00:26:16,910 —> 00:26:20,840
negotiations and so you can sort of

713
00:26:18,830 —> 00:26:22,820
place yourself on the on the personality

714
00:26:20,840 —> 00:26:25,100
trait distribution you know you’re

715
00:26:22,820 —> 00:26:27,260
extrovert it’s like okay man learn to

716
00:26:25,100 —> 00:26:29,300
spend some time with yourself right

717
00:26:27,260 —> 00:26:31,100
you’re low in openness well try reading

718
00:26:29,300 —> 00:26:32,750
a book that’s outside of your you know

719
00:26:31,100 —> 00:26:35,959
your your sphere of interest now and

720
00:26:32,750 —> 00:26:37,210
then if you’re conscientious well you

721
00:26:35,960 —> 00:26:39,620
should probably learn how to relax

722
00:26:37,210 —> 00:26:41,270
occasionally and and so forth so you can

723
00:26:39,620 —> 00:26:42,649
I think partly what you’re doing is

724
00:26:41,270 —> 00:26:44,740
you’re developing your personality is

725
00:26:42,650 —> 00:26:46,910
not moving the mean much the average

726
00:26:44,740 —> 00:26:49,130
where you know where you’re located but

727
00:26:46,910 —> 00:26:50,630
you’re extending the standard deviation

728
00:26:49,130 —> 00:26:53,060
so that you’re a bigger bag of tricks

729
00:26:50,630 —> 00:26:54,950
than you were before and I think you can

730
00:26:53,060 —> 00:26:57,889
practice that consciously it’s like

731
00:26:54,950 —> 00:27:00,530
you’re hyper orderly it’s well get a dog

732
00:26:57,890 —> 00:27:01,880
you know dogs they’re messy horrible

733
00:27:00,530 —> 00:27:03,170
things you know it’s just what you need

734
00:27:01,880 —> 00:27:04,580
if you’re hyper orderly because they’re

735
00:27:03,170 —> 00:27:07,400
gonna leave hair everywhere and force

736
00:27:04,580 —> 00:27:09,110
you live with it and so okay so and so

737
00:27:07,400 —> 00:27:11,720
this is sort of you right this is your

738
00:27:09,110 —> 00:27:14,030
personality it’s this connect collection

739
00:27:11,720 —> 00:27:15,740
of root subroutines that you’ve turned

740
00:27:14,030 —> 00:27:17,090
into a hierarchy and then there’s

741
00:27:15,740 —> 00:27:18,890
something at the top of it and that’s

742
00:27:17,090 —> 00:27:19,909
that’s a big question like what the hell

743
00:27:18,890 —> 00:27:21,830
should be at the top of the hierarchy

744
00:27:19,910 —> 00:27:24,050
because that’s the ultimate question of

745
00:27:21,830 —> 00:27:25,520
unity and then the the clinicians would

746
00:27:24,050 —> 00:27:27,200
say well it’s the self-actualized person

747
00:27:25,520 —> 00:27:29,540
or it’s the self or something like that

748
00:27:27,200 —> 00:27:32,210
you know that’s that’s the ID that’s the

749
00:27:29,540 —> 00:27:34,520
implicit and perhaps explicit ideal that

750
00:27:32,210 —> 00:27:36,890
you’re aiming for and you might say well

751
00:27:34,520 —> 00:27:39,650
is does such thing exists that I would

752
00:27:36,890 —> 00:27:41,840
say well do you admire people because

753
00:27:39,650 —> 00:27:44,270
that’s your answer right do you despise

754
00:27:41,840 —> 00:27:45,770
people well you like some people and you

755
00:27:44,270 —> 00:27:47,629
don’t like others you respect some

756
00:27:45,770 —> 00:27:49,520
people you don’t respect others well

757
00:27:47,630 —> 00:27:51,680
you’re acting out the notion that

758
00:27:49,520 —> 00:27:53,120
there’s at least an implicit ideal you

759
00:27:51,680 —> 00:27:54,650
do the same thing when you go to movies

760
00:27:53,120 —> 00:27:56,540
you know you you know who the hero is

761
00:27:54,650 —> 00:27:58,250
you know who the bad guy is you’re

762
00:27:56,540 —> 00:27:59,870
acting out the proposition that there’s

763
00:27:58,250 —> 00:28:01,700
some sort of value hierarchy and there’s

764
00:27:59,870 —> 00:28:04,310
some sort of manifestation of it that’s

765
00:28:01,700 —> 00:28:06,260
coherent across time so you appear to

766
00:28:04,310 —> 00:28:07,730
believe that and you know you are driven

767
00:28:06,260 —> 00:28:10,790
at least to some degree by your own

768
00:28:07,730 —> 00:28:14,210
inner ideals and so you tend to answer

769
00:28:10,790 —> 00:28:15,950
the question is that real with an

770
00:28:14,210 —> 00:28:17,990
affirmative and if you don’t there’s

771
00:28:15,950 —> 00:28:19,250
catastrophic consequences Nietzsche and

772
00:28:17,990 —> 00:28:20,090
the existentialist we’re very good at

773
00:28:19,250 —> 00:28:21,049
detailing maths

774
00:28:20,090 —> 00:28:24,590
like you let your value hierarchy

775
00:28:21,049 —> 00:28:27,139
disintegrate well then what well part of

776
00:28:24,590 —> 00:28:28,850
it is nihilistic chaos whoo that’s not

777
00:28:27,140 —> 00:28:31,039
so much fun and then there’s the

778
00:28:28,850 —> 00:28:33,049
alignment of nihilistic chaos with the

779
00:28:31,039 —> 00:28:35,210
intrinsic desire that someone will come

780
00:28:33,049 —> 00:28:37,129
along and tell you what to do right so

781
00:28:35,210 —> 00:28:39,470
what happens is if you let this devolve

782
00:28:37,130 —> 00:28:41,390
you end up with nihilistic exists not

783
00:28:39,470 —> 00:28:43,909
with nihilistic chaos or the demand for

784
00:28:41,390 —> 00:28:45,380
for the tyrant to come forward and we’ve

785
00:28:43,909 —> 00:28:49,600
had that happen lots of times and

786
00:28:45,380 —> 00:28:49,600
doesn’t seem to have gone that well so

787
00:28:50,380 —> 00:28:55,130
all right well so what happens when you

788
00:28:53,029 —> 00:28:57,070
you lay out these little routines in the

789
00:28:55,130 —> 00:28:59,990
world at different levels of analysis

790
00:28:57,070 —> 00:29:02,510
well this is how your emotions function

791
00:28:59,990 —> 00:29:05,510
broadly speaking you know you’re aiming

792
00:29:02,510 —> 00:29:07,100
at something and this is an

793
00:29:05,510 —> 00:29:08,629
oversimplification which is why I want

794
00:29:07,100 —> 00:29:13,360
to show you this right when I show you

795
00:29:08,630 —> 00:29:15,580
this assume that it’s made out of that

796
00:29:13,360 —> 00:29:18,918
right it’s just a schematic

797
00:29:15,580 —> 00:29:20,629
oversimplification because even if let’s

798
00:29:18,919 —> 00:29:22,640
say that I’m trying to do something as

799
00:29:20,630 —> 00:29:26,210
simple as walking towards the door I

800
00:29:22,640 —> 00:29:28,039
mean that the action of walking towards

801
00:29:26,210 —> 00:29:30,649
the door is predicated on the existence

802
00:29:28,039 —> 00:29:34,220
of all the subroutines that enable me to

803
00:29:30,649 —> 00:29:36,739
propel my body across time and space and

804
00:29:34,220 —> 00:29:38,990
like there’s that took a lot of internal

805
00:29:36,740 —> 00:29:41,090
organization to get that right it’s a

806
00:29:38,990 —> 00:29:43,909
traumatized now and so you can treat it

807
00:29:41,090 —> 00:29:45,830
like it’s invisible but implicit in any

808
00:29:43,909 —> 00:29:48,049
one of these structures is this entire

809
00:29:45,830 —> 00:29:50,539
structure and you actually see this in

810
00:29:48,049 —> 00:29:51,889
therapy very frequently — okay one of

811
00:29:50,539 —> 00:29:53,840
the things that I figured out over the

812
00:29:51,890 —> 00:29:56,149
last years is this is a good proposition

813
00:29:53,840 —> 00:29:59,270
so you know it’s pretty self-evident

814
00:29:56,149 —> 00:30:00,739
that life is has got its rat’s nest of

815
00:29:59,270 —> 00:30:02,090
miseries and that’s for sure and maybe

816
00:30:00,740 —> 00:30:04,130
you could even make a categorical

817
00:30:02,090 —> 00:30:06,139
statement that life is mostly a rat’s

818
00:30:04,130 —> 00:30:08,480
nest of misery you know you can make a

819
00:30:06,140 —> 00:30:10,490
pretty powerful argument for that but

820
00:30:08,480 —> 00:30:11,929
then there’s a counter question which is

821
00:30:10,490 —> 00:30:13,429
well what if you tried not to make it

822
00:30:11,929 —> 00:30:16,549
any more miserable that had had to be

823
00:30:13,429 —> 00:30:19,549
right then what then what would it be

824
00:30:16,549 —> 00:30:21,620
like and my suspicions are is that law

825
00:30:19,549 —> 00:30:23,270
about misery I would suspect that most

826
00:30:21,620 —> 00:30:25,189
of that misery would go away because

827
00:30:23,270 —> 00:30:27,139
it’s the unnecessary misery that really

828
00:30:25,190 —> 00:30:29,030
brings you down you know it’s like well

829
00:30:27,140 —> 00:30:33,110
someone has cancer it’s like that sucks

830
00:30:29,030 —> 00:30:33,899
but it’s not like it’s not like you can

831
00:30:33,110 —> 00:30:36,120
say

832
00:30:33,900 —> 00:30:38,760
if only we had done this differently

833
00:30:36,120 —> 00:30:40,620
then that wouldn’t have happened but

834
00:30:38,760 —> 00:30:42,390
when someone’s out like torturing you in

835
00:30:40,620 —> 00:30:43,500
a malevolent way or maybe you’re doing

836
00:30:42,390 —> 00:30:45,480
the same you can always ask yourself

837
00:30:43,500 —> 00:30:48,540
well really it’s this really necessary

838
00:30:45,480 —> 00:30:49,950
is this just like an useless add-on to

839
00:30:48,540 —> 00:30:52,139
the miseries of life that’s what

840
00:30:49,950 —> 00:30:55,590
disheartens people and so even in your

841
00:30:52,140 —> 00:30:58,140
own life if if you if you aren’t

842
00:30:55,590 —> 00:31:00,419
suffering from self-imposed misery and

843
00:30:58,140 —> 00:31:02,550
you’re only suffering from an escapable

844
00:31:00,420 —> 00:31:05,040
misery maybe you could handle that and

845
00:31:02,550 —> 00:31:07,409
you know you could you could survive you

846
00:31:05,040 —> 00:31:10,139
could bear it and even maybe without

847
00:31:07,410 —> 00:31:12,179
becoming irredeemably corrupt and so the

848
00:31:10,140 —> 00:31:14,130
goal would be well yeah life is a rat’s

849
00:31:12,179 —> 00:31:16,410
nest of miseries and maybe it has no

850
00:31:14,130 —> 00:31:18,570
ultimate meaning we could say that for

851
00:31:16,410 —> 00:31:20,370
feeling particularly pessimistic but it

852
00:31:18,570 —> 00:31:21,809
still leaves one question open which is

853
00:31:20,370 —> 00:31:24,870
if you didn’t do everything you could to

854
00:31:21,809 —> 00:31:27,629
make it worse how good could you make it

855
00:31:24,870 —> 00:31:30,500
be and the least answer is well it it

856
00:31:27,630 —> 00:31:33,000
could be tragedy but maybe not hell and

857
00:31:30,500 —> 00:31:34,380
I think that’s right I really believe

858
00:31:33,000 —> 00:31:37,080
that that’s that’s the most pessimistic

859
00:31:34,380 —> 00:31:39,480
proper statement the worst-case outcome

860
00:31:37,080 —> 00:31:41,159
in the worst of all possible worlds is

861
00:31:39,480 —> 00:31:43,740
that your life could be tragic but not

862
00:31:41,160 —> 00:31:46,080
hell and that’s blood better than hell

863
00:31:43,740 —> 00:31:47,309
right it’s it’s and you think I could

864
00:31:46,080 —> 00:31:49,020
give you an example of the difference

865
00:31:47,309 —> 00:31:51,540
you’re at your mother’s deathbed

866
00:31:49,020 —> 00:31:53,520
well that’s tragedy here’s another

867
00:31:51,540 —> 00:31:55,230
scenario you’re out your mother’s

868
00:31:53,520 —> 00:31:58,410
deathbed and all you you and all your

869
00:31:55,230 —> 00:32:00,000
idiot siblings are arguing well that’s

870
00:31:58,410 —> 00:32:01,890
the difference between tragedy and hell

871
00:32:00,000 —> 00:32:03,300
and you might be able to tolerate the

872
00:32:01,890 —> 00:32:04,770
first circumstance and maybe it would

873
00:32:03,300 —> 00:32:07,830
even bring you closer together with your

874
00:32:04,770 —> 00:32:09,600
family members the second one no one can

875
00:32:07,830 —> 00:32:12,240
bear that you walk away from a situation

876
00:32:09,600 —> 00:32:14,070
like that sick of yourself and sick of

877
00:32:12,240 —> 00:32:16,080
everything else — and you know it’s

878
00:32:14,070 —> 00:32:19,740
often the case that tragic circumstances

879
00:32:16,080 —> 00:32:21,270
bring out the Dragons because the stress

880
00:32:19,740 —> 00:32:24,030
is high and all those things that people

881
00:32:21,270 —> 00:32:26,129
haven’t dealt with they don’t have the

882
00:32:24,030 —> 00:32:28,290
energy to repress and and all the

883
00:32:26,130 —> 00:32:31,440
bitterness comes pouring forward it’s

884
00:32:28,290 —> 00:32:33,450
like seriously man so that’s actually a

885
00:32:31,440 —> 00:32:35,100
good it’s a rough lesson but it’s a good

886
00:32:33,450 —> 00:32:37,530
hallmark for figuring out whether or not

887
00:32:35,100 —> 00:32:39,540
you’re you’ve got yourself adjusted

888
00:32:37,530 —> 00:32:42,210
properly and in relationship to your

889
00:32:39,540 —> 00:32:43,920
siblings it’s like if you all gathered

890
00:32:42,210 —> 00:32:47,399
around the bed of someone close who is

891
00:32:43,920 —> 00:32:49,379
dying could you manage it if they

892
00:32:47,399 —> 00:32:51,029
there is no it’s like well put your life

893
00:32:49,379 —> 00:32:53,039
together because it’s going to happen

894
00:32:51,029 —> 00:32:55,229
and you should be the person who’s there

895
00:32:53,039 —> 00:32:57,269
that can do it and do it properly and

896
00:32:55,229 —> 00:32:59,279
then maybe you’d find that it isn’t the

897
00:32:57,269 —> 00:33:02,009
sort of thing that will undermine your

898
00:32:59,279 —> 00:33:03,869
faith in life itself and I’ve seen I’ve

899
00:33:02,009 —> 00:33:07,519
seen both of those situations you know

900
00:33:03,869 —> 00:33:10,080
ugly ugly ugly situations you know

901
00:33:07,519 —> 00:33:12,330
murderously ugly situations and then

902
00:33:10,080 —> 00:33:14,129
their opposite where people have had

903
00:33:12,330 —> 00:33:15,809
terrible things happening to happen to

904
00:33:14,129 —> 00:33:18,899
them as a family and you know they pull

905
00:33:15,809 —> 00:33:21,809
together and they rebuild their damn

906
00:33:18,899 —> 00:33:25,589
ship and they sail away so that seems to

907
00:33:21,809 —> 00:33:28,229
me to be a lot better that makes you

908
00:33:25,589 —> 00:33:30,359
know when the flood comes right well

909
00:33:28,229 —> 00:33:32,190
okay so the same thing the question

910
00:33:30,359 —> 00:33:37,289
emerges well who are you well you could

911
00:33:32,190 —> 00:33:38,999
say your this plan that’s what people

912
00:33:37,289 —> 00:33:40,830
usually that’s how people usually

913
00:33:38,999 —> 00:33:42,479
identify maybe they have no plan at all

914
00:33:40,830 —> 00:33:44,639
and they’re just in chaos right that’s

915
00:33:42,479 —> 00:33:46,229
like being in the belly of the beast

916
00:33:44,639 —> 00:33:48,418
they’re nihilistic and chaos they have

917
00:33:46,229 —> 00:33:49,950
no plan they’re just chaos itself and

918
00:33:48,419 —> 00:33:52,259
that’s a very dreadful situation for

919
00:33:49,950 —> 00:33:54,419
people to be in or maybe they conjure

920
00:33:52,259 —> 00:33:55,889
together a plan that’s their identity

921
00:33:54,419 —> 00:33:57,389
it’s kind of fragile and they’re holding

922
00:33:55,889 —> 00:33:58,709
on to that with with everything they’ve

923
00:33:57,389 —> 00:34:00,570
got it’s their little stick of wood that

924
00:33:58,710 —> 00:34:02,580
they’re floating in the ocean clinging

925
00:34:00,570 —> 00:34:04,918
to you know and so they’re identifying

926
00:34:02,580 —> 00:34:06,478
really hard with that plan that’s what

927
00:34:04,919 —> 00:34:08,099
happens when you’re an ideologue is that

928
00:34:06,479 —> 00:34:10,559
you’re identifying really hard with that

929
00:34:08,099 —> 00:34:12,779
plan the problem is is something comes

930
00:34:10,559 —> 00:34:14,250
up to confront it well how do you act

931
00:34:12,779 —> 00:34:17,369
well you can’t let go with a plan

932
00:34:14,250 —> 00:34:19,139
because you drown then you cling to it

933
00:34:17,369 —> 00:34:21,389
rigidly well that’s no good because then

934
00:34:19,139 —> 00:34:23,010
you can’t learn anything then if that’s

935
00:34:21,389 —> 00:34:24,389
you you’re a totalitarian you’re not

936
00:34:23,010 —> 00:34:26,339
going to learn anything you’re going to

937
00:34:24,389 —> 00:34:27,450
end up in something that’s close enough

938
00:34:26,339 —> 00:34:28,828
to hell so that you won’t know the

939
00:34:27,449 —> 00:34:30,629
difference and you might drag everyone

940
00:34:28,829 —> 00:34:32,309
along with you that’s happened plenty of

941
00:34:30,629 —> 00:34:33,839
times right it’s the whole story of the

942
00:34:32,309 —> 00:34:35,669
20th century it happened over and over

943
00:34:33,839 —> 00:34:39,029
and over and it happens in people’s

944
00:34:35,668 —> 00:34:40,589
states it’s happens in their business

945
00:34:39,029 —> 00:34:42,239
organizations that happens in their

946
00:34:40,589 —> 00:34:44,069
cities that happens in their provinces

947
00:34:42,239 —> 00:34:46,739
it happens in their States and it

948
00:34:44,069 —> 00:34:50,250
happens in their psyches all at the same

949
00:34:46,739 —> 00:34:51,658
time you can’t blame the manifestation

950
00:34:50,250 —> 00:34:53,309
of that sort of thing on any of those

951
00:34:51,659 —> 00:34:55,710
one levels it happens when a society

952
00:34:53,309 —> 00:34:57,539
goes down that way it goes down

953
00:34:55,710 —> 00:34:59,819
everywhere at the same time it’s not the

954
00:34:57,539 —> 00:35:01,349
totalitarians at the top and all the

955
00:34:59,819 —> 00:35:03,420
happy people striving to be

956
00:35:01,349 —> 00:35:05,400
at the bottom it’s not that at all it’s

957
00:35:03,420 —> 00:35:06,839
totalitarianism at every single level of

958
00:35:05,400 —> 00:35:08,819
the hierarchy including the

959
00:35:06,839 —> 00:35:10,049
psychological and so you don’t want to

960
00:35:08,819 —> 00:35:11,699
be the thing you don’t want to be in

961
00:35:10,049 —> 00:35:12,839
chaos that’s for sure but you don’t want

962
00:35:11,699 —> 00:35:15,299
to be the thing that clings so

963
00:35:12,839 —> 00:35:17,849
desperately to the raft that you can’t

964
00:35:15,299 —> 00:35:20,849
let go when someone comes to rescue you

965
00:35:17,849 —> 00:35:22,529
right you don’t want to be that so then

966
00:35:20,849 —> 00:35:24,299
you think well exactly what are you

967
00:35:22,529 —> 00:35:27,630
you know what the chaos you know what

968
00:35:24,299 —> 00:35:30,359
the plan maybe your the thing that

969
00:35:27,630 —> 00:35:33,559
confronts the obstacle and I would say

970
00:35:30,359 —> 00:35:36,449
that’s the categorical lesson of of

971
00:35:33,559 —> 00:35:38,579
psychology insofar as it has to do with

972
00:35:36,449 —> 00:35:40,019
personal transformation that’s what you

973
00:35:38,579 —> 00:35:41,339
always teach people in psychotherapy I

974
00:35:40,019 —> 00:35:42,538
don’t care what sort of psychotherapists

975
00:35:41,339 —> 00:35:44,819
you are you’re always teaching them the

976
00:35:42,539 —> 00:35:45,299
same thing you’re the thing that can you

977
00:35:44,819 —> 00:35:47,640
not

978
00:35:45,299 —> 00:35:49,319
you’re not the plan you’re the thing

979
00:35:47,640 —> 00:35:51,239
that can confront the obstacle to the

980
00:35:49,319 —> 00:35:52,920
plant and then when you know even

981
00:35:51,239 —> 00:35:55,949
further that the obstacle is not only an

982
00:35:52,920 —> 00:35:57,209
obstacle but opportunity itself well

983
00:35:55,949 —> 00:35:58,499
then your whole view of the world can

984
00:35:57,209 —> 00:36:00,058
change because you might think well I’ve

985
00:35:58,499 —> 00:36:02,999
got this plan something came up to

986
00:36:00,059 —> 00:36:04,529
object to it it’s like it’s possible

987
00:36:02,999 —> 00:36:05,999
that the thing that’s objecting has

988
00:36:04,529 —> 00:36:07,499
something to teach you that will take

989
00:36:05,999 —> 00:36:09,479
you to the place where you develop an

990
00:36:07,499 —> 00:36:11,339
even better plant that’s a nice

991
00:36:09,479 —> 00:36:13,618
framework to use it’s like are you so

992
00:36:11,339 —> 00:36:15,930
sure that this is a problem is that the

993
00:36:13,619 —> 00:36:18,209
only way that you can look at it or is

994
00:36:15,930 —> 00:36:20,609
it an opportunity I mean I’m not trying

995
00:36:18,209 —> 00:36:21,989
to be you know naively optimistic there

996
00:36:20,609 —> 00:36:24,119
are some things that’s pretty hard to

997
00:36:21,989 —> 00:36:25,619
extract gold from some dragons and maybe

998
00:36:24,119 —> 00:36:26,339
the death of a family member is a good

999
00:36:25,619 —> 00:36:28,349
example of that

1000
00:36:26,339 —> 00:36:30,089
but in even in a situation like that I

1001
00:36:28,349 —> 00:36:33,239
can tell you that it’s an opportunity

1002
00:36:30,089 —> 00:36:35,910
for it’s an opportunity for maturation

1003
00:36:33,239 —> 00:36:37,739
that’s for sure and the thing is you

1004
00:36:35,910 —> 00:36:39,989
might say well it’s pretty miserable to

1005
00:36:37,739 —> 00:36:41,999
go to be digging for gold when someone’s

1006
00:36:39,989 —> 00:36:43,229
falling into the grave well if they

1007
00:36:41,999 —> 00:36:45,419
really loved you first of all that’s

1008
00:36:43,229 —> 00:36:46,739
what they’ll want you to do and second

1009
00:36:45,420 —> 00:36:48,989
you’re gonna make their death a lot more

1010
00:36:46,739 —> 00:36:50,400
palatable experience for them if you’re

1011
00:36:48,989 —> 00:36:52,289
someone who can be in the room and be

1012
00:36:50,400 —> 00:36:53,609
helpful instead of be you know quivering

1013
00:36:52,289 —> 00:36:55,469
in the corner and feeling that the

1014
00:36:53,609 —> 00:36:57,269
entire world is collapsing in on you I

1015
00:36:55,469 —> 00:36:59,940
mean that’s another you want to be the

1016
00:36:57,269 —> 00:37:03,118
useful person at the funeral how’s that

1017
00:36:59,940 —> 00:37:04,319
for a goal that’s a good goal man you

1018
00:37:03,119 —> 00:37:06,299
know that you’ve got yourself together

1019
00:37:04,319 —> 00:37:08,249
in a situation like that because you’re

1020
00:37:06,299 —> 00:37:10,499
gonna be at them and maybe you want to

1021
00:37:08,249 —> 00:37:13,198
be the person on whose shoulder people

1022
00:37:10,499 —> 00:37:14,939
cry that’d be a good goal that’s kind of

1023
00:37:13,199 —> 00:37:16,530
you know I don’t like being I

1024
00:37:14,940 —> 00:37:17,910
evilly optimistic so when I tell you to

1025
00:37:16,530 —> 00:37:21,180
get your life together I’m not going to

1026
00:37:17,910 —> 00:37:23,899
say roses and sunshine it’s like that’s

1027
00:37:21,180 —> 00:37:26,640
that’s that’s that’s pablum for fools

1028
00:37:23,900 —> 00:37:29,430
but it really is something to be the

1029
00:37:26,640 —> 00:37:31,910
reliable person out of funeral there’s

1030
00:37:29,430 —> 00:37:33,990
this idea in union psychology called the

1031
00:37:31,910 —> 00:37:37,049
circumambulation and you only had this

1032
00:37:33,990 —> 00:37:39,509
idea that you had a potential future

1033
00:37:37,050 —> 00:37:41,910
self which would be in potential

1034
00:37:39,510 —> 00:37:44,310
everything that you could be and that it

1035
00:37:41,910 —> 00:37:46,859
manifests itself moment to moment in

1036
00:37:44,310 —> 00:37:49,230
your present life by making you

1037
00:37:46,859 —> 00:37:50,970
interested in things and the things that

1038
00:37:49,230 —> 00:37:52,500
you’re interested in are the things that

1039
00:37:50,970 —> 00:37:54,450
would guide you along the path that

1040
00:37:52,500 —> 00:37:57,329
would lead you to maximal development

1041
00:37:54,450 —> 00:38:00,779
now it sounds up like a metaphysical

1042
00:37:57,329 —> 00:38:03,690
idea or a or a mystical idea even but

1043
00:38:00,780 —> 00:38:05,790
but it’s not it’s it’s not it’s a really

1044
00:38:03,690 —> 00:38:08,490
profoundly biological idea the idea is

1045
00:38:05,790 —> 00:38:09,990
something like well you’re set up so

1046
00:38:08,490 —> 00:38:12,598
that you’re automatically interested in

1047
00:38:09,990 —> 00:38:15,270
those things that was fully expand you

1048
00:38:12,599 —> 00:38:17,609
as a well adapted creature well like

1049
00:38:15,270 —> 00:38:20,280
there’s nothing radical about that idea

1050
00:38:17,609 —> 00:38:21,660
how well what else could possibly be the

1051
00:38:20,280 —> 00:38:24,510
case unless there’s something

1052
00:38:21,660 —> 00:38:27,000
fundamentally flawed about you that is

1053
00:38:24,510 —> 00:38:28,170
what the situation would be it’s kind of

1054
00:38:27,000 —> 00:38:30,420
interesting to think about how that

1055
00:38:28,170 —> 00:38:32,460
would be manifest moment to moment but

1056
00:38:30,420 —> 00:38:34,020
the idea is something like well your

1057
00:38:32,460 —> 00:38:36,030
interest is captured by those things

1058
00:38:34,020 —> 00:38:38,460
that lead you down the path of

1059
00:38:36,030 —> 00:38:41,099
development well I better be the case

1060
00:38:38,460 —> 00:38:42,990
okay so that’s fine and so there’s some

1061
00:38:41,099 —> 00:38:44,579
utility and pursuing those things that

1062
00:38:42,990 —> 00:38:47,848
you’re interested in that’s the call to

1063
00:38:44,579 —> 00:38:49,530
adventure let’s say so and the call to

1064
00:38:47,849 —> 00:38:50,880
adventure takes you all sorts of places

1065
00:38:49,530 —> 00:38:52,349
now the problem with the call to

1066
00:38:50,880 —> 00:38:54,750
adventure is like what the hell do you

1067
00:38:52,349 —> 00:38:56,960
know you might be interested in things

1068
00:38:54,750 —> 00:39:00,270
that are kind of warped and bent and

1069
00:38:56,960 —> 00:39:02,880
often it’s the case that when new parts

1070
00:39:00,270 —> 00:39:05,369
of people manifest themselves and grip

1071
00:39:02,880 —> 00:39:08,250
their interest say they do it very badly

1072
00:39:05,369 —> 00:39:09,599
and shoddily and so you stumble around

1073
00:39:08,250 —> 00:39:11,550
like an idiot when you try to do

1074
00:39:09,599 —> 00:39:13,200
something new that’s where the fool is

1075
00:39:11,550 —> 00:39:15,599
the precursor to the savior from the

1076
00:39:13,200 —> 00:39:17,310
from the symbolic perspectives because

1077
00:39:15,599 —> 00:39:18,869
you have to be a fool before you can be

1078
00:39:17,310 —> 00:39:22,290
a master and if you’re not willing to be

1079
00:39:18,869 —> 00:39:25,740
a fool then you can’t be a master so so

1080
00:39:22,290 —> 00:39:27,480
you’re gonna it’s an error error ridden

1081
00:39:25,740 —> 00:39:28,680
process and that’s also laid out in the

1082
00:39:27,480 —> 00:39:30,119
Old Testament stories but

1083
00:39:28,680 —> 00:39:32,759
the first thing that happens to all

1084
00:39:30,119 —> 00:39:34,260
these patriarchal figures when God kicks

1085
00:39:32,760 —> 00:39:37,589
them out of their father’s house when

1086
00:39:34,260 —> 00:39:39,539
they’re like 84 is that they they run

1087
00:39:37,589 —> 00:39:41,038
into all sorts of trouble and some of

1088
00:39:39,539 —> 00:39:42,539
its social and some of its natural and

1089
00:39:41,039 —> 00:39:45,450
some of it’s a consequence of their own

1090
00:39:42,539 —> 00:39:47,819
moral inadequacy so they’re fools and

1091
00:39:45,450 —> 00:39:49,828
but but the thing that’s so interesting

1092
00:39:47,819 —> 00:39:51,270
is that despite the fact that they’re

1093
00:39:49,829 —> 00:39:53,490
fools they’re still supposed to go on

1094
00:39:51,270 —> 00:39:56,069
the adventure and that they’re capable

1095
00:39:53,490 —> 00:39:57,899
of learning enough as a consequence of

1096
00:39:56,069 —> 00:39:59,308
moving forward on the adventure so that

1097
00:39:57,900 —> 00:40:01,859
they straighten themselves out across

1098
00:39:59,309 —> 00:40:03,930
time and so it’s something like this

1099
00:40:01,859 —> 00:40:07,078
this circumambulation that young talked

1100
00:40:03,930 —> 00:40:09,240
about was this continual will return to

1101
00:40:07,079 —> 00:40:11,579
this this continual circling in some

1102
00:40:09,240 —> 00:40:13,288
sense of who you could be you might

1103
00:40:11,579 —> 00:40:14,880
notice for example that there are themes

1104
00:40:13,289 —> 00:40:17,369
in your life you know when you go back

1105
00:40:14,880 —> 00:40:18,869
across your experiences you see you kind

1106
00:40:17,369 —> 00:40:21,480
of have your typical experience that

1107
00:40:18,869 —> 00:40:23,670
sort of repeats itself and there might

1108
00:40:21,480 —> 00:40:26,160
be variation on it like a musical theme

1109
00:40:23,670 —> 00:40:28,170
but it’s it’s like you’re circling

1110
00:40:26,160 —> 00:40:30,058
yourself and getting closer to yourself

1111
00:40:28,170 —> 00:40:32,069
as you move across time

1112
00:40:30,059 —> 00:40:33,420
that’s the circumambulation now you

1113
00:40:32,069 —> 00:40:35,099
remember that for a sec cause we’ll go

1114
00:40:33,420 —> 00:40:37,559
back to it okay so imagine that

1115
00:40:35,099 —> 00:40:40,109
something glimmers before you it’s an an

1116
00:40:37,559 —> 00:40:42,000
interest that’s dawning and you decide

1117
00:40:40,109 —> 00:40:43,319
well first of all you’re paralyzed do

1118
00:40:42,000 —> 00:40:45,059
you think well how do I know if I should

1119
00:40:43,319 —> 00:40:47,609
pursue that it’s probably a stupid idea

1120
00:40:45,059 —> 00:40:49,289
and the proper response to that is

1121
00:40:47,609 —> 00:40:51,660
you’re right it probably is a stupid

1122
00:40:49,289 —> 00:40:55,049
idea because almost all all ideas are

1123
00:40:51,660 —> 00:40:57,240
stupid and so the probability that as

1124
00:40:55,049 —> 00:40:58,859
you move forward on your adventure that

1125
00:40:57,240 —> 00:41:01,799
you’re gonna get it right the first time

1126
00:40:58,859 —> 00:41:03,538
is zero it’s just not gonna happen

1127
00:41:01,799 —> 00:41:05,970
and so then you might think well maybe

1128
00:41:03,539 —> 00:41:08,460
I’ll just wait around until I get the

1129
00:41:05,970 —> 00:41:10,529
right idea and which people do right so

1130
00:41:08,460 —> 00:41:12,930
they’re like 40 year old thirteen year

1131
00:41:10,529 —> 00:41:15,299
olds which is not a good idea so they

1132
00:41:12,930 —> 00:41:17,669
wait around until it’s waiting for godot

1133
00:41:15,299 —> 00:41:19,109
until they finally got it right but the

1134
00:41:17,670 —> 00:41:20,940
problem is you’re too stupid to know

1135
00:41:19,109 —> 00:41:23,308
when you’ve got it right so waiting

1136
00:41:20,940 —> 00:41:25,740
around isn’t gonna help because even if

1137
00:41:23,309 —> 00:41:28,049
it the perfect opportunity manifested

1138
00:41:25,740 —> 00:41:30,240
itself to you in your incomplete form

1139
00:41:28,049 —> 00:41:32,279
the probability that you would recognize

1140
00:41:30,240 —> 00:41:33,990
it as the perfect opportunity is zero

1141
00:41:32,279 —> 00:41:35,970
you might even think it’s the worst

1142
00:41:33,990 —> 00:41:39,479
possible idea that you’ve ever heard of

1143
00:41:35,970 —> 00:41:42,009
anywhere highly likely highly likely so

1144
00:41:39,480 —> 00:41:43,660
so you have there’s niche

1145
00:41:42,010 —> 00:41:46,300
Nietzsche called that a will will to

1146
00:41:43,660 —> 00:41:48,310
stupidity which I really liked so

1147
00:41:46,300 —> 00:41:51,190
because he thought of stupidity as being

1148
00:41:48,310 —> 00:41:53,620
it you know it’s it’s you have to take

1149
00:41:51,190 —> 00:41:56,260
it into account fundamentally and work

1150
00:41:53,620 —> 00:41:59,500
with it and so and so you can take these

1151
00:41:56,260 —> 00:42:01,930
tentative steps on your pathway to

1152
00:41:59,500 —> 00:42:03,820
destiny and you can assume that you’re

1153
00:42:01,930 —> 00:42:05,649
gonna do it badly and that’s really

1154
00:42:03,820 —> 00:42:07,120
useful because you don’t have to beat

1155
00:42:05,650 —> 00:42:09,490
yourself up it’s pretty easy to do it

1156
00:42:07,120 —> 00:42:11,290
badly but the thing is it’s way better

1157
00:42:09,490 —> 00:42:14,200
to do it badly than not to do it at all

1158
00:42:11,290 —> 00:42:16,690
and that’s a continual message that

1159
00:42:14,200 —> 00:42:18,759
echoes through these historical stories

1160
00:42:16,690 —> 00:42:21,250
in Genesis it’s like these are flawed

1161
00:42:18,760 —> 00:42:23,530
people they should have got the hell out

1162
00:42:21,250 —> 00:42:25,810
of their house way before they did and

1163
00:42:23,530 —> 00:42:29,020
they go out and they stumble around in

1164
00:42:25,810 —> 00:42:32,740
tyranny and famine and self betrayal and

1165
00:42:29,020 —> 00:42:34,570
and violence and but it’s a hell of a

1166
00:42:32,740 —> 00:42:37,209
lot better than just rotting away at

1167
00:42:34,570 —> 00:42:39,790
home and that’s the that’s great so

1168
00:42:37,210 —> 00:42:41,740
that’s good and so why is that well okay

1169
00:42:39,790 —> 00:42:43,360
so you you start your path and you think

1170
00:42:41,740 —> 00:42:45,879
that you’re heading you know towards

1171
00:42:43,360 —> 00:42:49,810
your star and so you go in that

1172
00:42:45,880 —> 00:42:51,520
direction and then because you’re here

1173
00:42:49,810 —> 00:42:54,610
the world looks a particular way but

1174
00:42:51,520 —> 00:42:56,410
then when you move here the world looks

1175
00:42:54,610 —> 00:42:58,210
different and you’re different as a

1176
00:42:56,410 —> 00:43:00,549
consequence of having made that voyage

1177
00:42:58,210 —> 00:43:02,380
and so what that means is that now that

1178
00:43:00,550 —> 00:43:04,900
thing that glimmers in front of you is

1179
00:43:02,380 —> 00:43:06,580
going to have shifted its location

1180
00:43:04,900 —> 00:43:08,740
because you weren’t very good at

1181
00:43:06,580 —> 00:43:11,020
specifying it to begin with and now that

1182
00:43:08,740 —> 00:43:13,750
you’re a little sharper and more focused

1183
00:43:11,020 —> 00:43:16,810
than you were it’s it’s going to reveal

1184
00:43:13,750 —> 00:43:20,680
itself with more accuracy to you and so

1185
00:43:16,810 —> 00:43:23,860
then you have to take you know it’s

1186
00:43:20,680 —> 00:43:28,240
almost like 180 degree reversal but it

1187
00:43:23,860 —> 00:43:29,740
isn’t because you know you’ve I mean

1188
00:43:28,240 —> 00:43:33,370
you’ve gone this far and that’s a long

1189
00:43:29,740 —> 00:43:36,310
ways to get that far but that’s a lot

1190
00:43:33,370 —> 00:43:39,339
farther than you would be if you just

1191
00:43:36,310 —> 00:43:41,820
stayed where you were waiting and so it

1192
00:43:39,340 —> 00:43:45,720
doesn’t matter that you overshoot

1193
00:43:41,820 —> 00:43:48,430
continually because as you overshoot

1194
00:43:45,720 —> 00:43:49,870
even if you don’t learn what you should

1195
00:43:48,430 —> 00:43:52,680
have done you’re going to continually

1196
00:43:49,870 —> 00:43:55,359
learn what you shouldn’t keep doing and

1197
00:43:52,680 —> 00:43:56,450
if you learn enough about what you

1198
00:43:55,360 —> 00:43:59,150
shouldn’t keep do

1199
00:43:56,450 —> 00:44:00,828
then that’s tantamount at some point to

1200
00:43:59,150 —> 00:44:04,760
learning at the same time what you

1201
00:44:00,829 —> 00:44:08,329
should be doing so it’s okay so it’s

1202
00:44:04,760 —> 00:44:10,309
like this now what’s cool about it

1203
00:44:08,329 —> 00:44:13,880
though I think is that as you progress

1204
00:44:10,309 —> 00:44:15,890
the degree of overshooting starts to

1205
00:44:13,880 —> 00:44:18,050
decline right and that we know that

1206
00:44:15,890 —> 00:44:20,299
there’s nothing hypothetical about that

1207
00:44:18,050 —> 00:44:22,040
as you learn a new skill like even to

1208
00:44:20,300 —> 00:44:24,020
play it play a song on the piano for

1209
00:44:22,040 —> 00:44:25,550
example you over shoot madly he’s making

1210
00:44:24,020 —> 00:44:32,180
all sorts of mistakes to begin with and

1211
00:44:25,550 —> 00:44:34,760
then the mistakes they disappear there’s

1212
00:44:32,180 —> 00:44:37,669
a great TED talk I think it was about

1213
00:44:34,760 —> 00:44:39,589
this guy set up a really advanced

1214
00:44:37,670 —> 00:44:41,869
computational recording system in his

1215
00:44:39,589 —> 00:44:45,259
home and recorded every single utterance

1216
00:44:41,869 —> 00:44:47,750
his young child made while learning to

1217
00:44:45,260 —> 00:44:50,900
speak and then he put together the

1218
00:44:47,750 —> 00:44:53,150
child’s attempts to say certain phonemes

1219
00:44:50,900 —> 00:44:56,119
and put them in the list and you can

1220
00:44:53,150 —> 00:44:57,859
hear the child deviating madly to begin

1221
00:44:56,119 —> 00:45:00,079
with and then after hundreds and

1222
00:44:57,859 —> 00:45:03,200
hundreds of repetitions just zeroing

1223
00:45:00,079 —> 00:45:04,849
right in on the exact phoneme so you

1224
00:45:03,200 —> 00:45:06,649
know I you might not know this but when

1225
00:45:04,849 —> 00:45:08,180
kids babble because they start babbling

1226
00:45:06,650 —> 00:45:11,359
when they’re quite young they babble

1227
00:45:08,180 —> 00:45:13,190
every human phoneme including all sorts

1228
00:45:11,359 —> 00:45:16,130
of phonemes that adults can’t say and

1229
00:45:13,190 —> 00:45:19,640
then they they die into their language

1230
00:45:16,130 —> 00:45:21,109
so that after they learn say English

1231
00:45:19,640 —> 00:45:22,879
then there’s all sorts of phonemes they

1232
00:45:21,109 —> 00:45:24,470
can no longer hear or pronounce but to

1233
00:45:22,880 —> 00:45:26,119
begin with it’s all there which is

1234
00:45:24,470 —> 00:45:29,480
really quite interesting but so they see

1235
00:45:26,119 —> 00:45:32,180
as they learn a particular language they

1236
00:45:29,480 —> 00:45:34,670
zero in on the proper way to pronounce

1237
00:45:32,180 —> 00:45:36,109
that and their errors minimize and every

1238
00:45:34,670 —> 00:45:37,460
time you learn something that’s how it

1239
00:45:36,109 —> 00:45:39,410
is and that’s really useful to know too

1240
00:45:37,460 —> 00:45:42,140
because it means that it’s okay to

1241
00:45:39,410 —> 00:45:44,960
wander around stupidly before you fix

1242
00:45:42,140 —> 00:45:47,509
your destination now you see that echoed

1243
00:45:44,960 —> 00:45:49,400
in Exodus right because what happens is

1244
00:45:47,510 —> 00:45:51,829
that the Egyptians or the Hebrews

1245
00:45:49,400 —> 00:45:53,930
escaped a tyranny which is kind of

1246
00:45:51,829 —> 00:45:55,970
whatever you do personally and

1247
00:45:53,930 —> 00:45:58,669
psychologically when you escape from

1248
00:45:55,970 —> 00:46:01,640
your previous set of stupidly held and

1249
00:45:58,670 —> 00:46:03,349
ignorant and stubborn axioms it’s like

1250
00:46:01,640 —> 00:46:05,680
away from that tyranny it’s like great i

1251
00:46:03,349 —> 00:46:08,089
freed myself from that well then what

1252
00:46:05,680 —> 00:46:09,319
well you think well now I’m on the way

1253
00:46:08,089 —> 00:46:09,950
it’s no you’re not now you’re in the

1254
00:46:09,319 —> 00:46:12,680
desert

1255
00:46:09,950 —> 00:46:15,410
where you wander around stupidly you

1256
00:46:12,680 —> 00:46:17,930
know and worship the wrong things until

1257
00:46:15,410 —> 00:46:19,578
you finally organize yourself morally

1258
00:46:17,930 —> 00:46:22,098
again and head in the proper direction

1259
00:46:19,579 —> 00:46:25,160
so that’s worth knowing too because you

1260
00:46:22,099 —> 00:46:27,200
think well I got rid of a lot of things

1261
00:46:25,160 —> 00:46:28,730
baggage excess baggage that I didn’t

1262
00:46:27,200 —> 00:46:30,828
need in my life and now everything’s

1263
00:46:28,730 —> 00:46:32,869
okay it’s like no it’s not you’ve got

1264
00:46:30,829 —> 00:46:34,490
rid of a whole set of scaffolds that

1265
00:46:32,869 —> 00:46:36,589
were keeping you in place even though

1266
00:46:34,490 —> 00:46:38,899
they were pathological and now you have

1267
00:46:36,589 —> 00:46:41,720
nothing and nothing actually turns out

1268
00:46:38,900 —> 00:46:43,550
to be better than something pathological

1269
00:46:41,720 —> 00:46:46,129
but you you’re still stuck with the

1270
00:46:43,550 —> 00:46:48,050
problem of nothing and and that’s well

1271
00:46:46,130 —> 00:46:50,089
that’s exactly why Exodus is structured

1272
00:46:48,050 —> 00:46:51,950
the way that it is it’s that you escape

1273
00:46:50,089 —> 00:46:53,540
from eternity it’s hooray we’re no

1274
00:46:51,950 —> 00:46:56,689
longer slaves yeah well now you’re

1275
00:46:53,540 —> 00:46:59,450
nihilistic and lost it’s not necessarily

1276
00:46:56,690 —> 00:47:01,849
an improvement but it is but it is the

1277
00:46:59,450 —> 00:47:04,098
pre let’s see it’s also useful to know

1278
00:47:01,849 —> 00:47:06,230
that because you can also be deluded

1279
00:47:04,099 —> 00:47:07,880
into the idea that imagine that you’re

1280
00:47:06,230 —> 00:47:09,890
trying to become enlightened which might

1281
00:47:07,880 —> 00:47:11,750
mean to turn all those parts of you on

1282
00:47:09,890 —> 00:47:13,879
that could be turned on you think well

1283
00:47:11,750 —> 00:47:15,680
that’s just a linear pathway uphill you

1284
00:47:13,880 —> 00:47:17,900
know it’s just from one success to

1285
00:47:15,680 —> 00:47:19,098
another it’s no it’s not it’s like here

1286
00:47:17,900 —> 00:47:20,930
you are and you’re not doing too badly

1287
00:47:19,099 —> 00:47:23,780
and the first step is a complete bloody

1288
00:47:20,930 —> 00:47:25,759
catastrophe it’s worse and then maybe

1289
00:47:23,780 —> 00:47:28,400
you can pull yourself together and you

1290
00:47:25,760 —> 00:47:30,710
hit a new plateau and then that crumbles

1291
00:47:28,400 —> 00:47:32,660
and shakes and bang it’s worse again and

1292
00:47:30,710 —> 00:47:34,010
so because part of the reason that

1293
00:47:32,660 —> 00:47:37,098
people don’t become enlightened is

1294
00:47:34,010 —> 00:47:39,560
because it’s punctuated by intermittent

1295
00:47:37,099 —> 00:47:41,569
deserts essentially by intermittent

1296
00:47:39,560 —> 00:47:43,040
catastrophes and if you don’t know that

1297
00:47:41,569 —> 00:47:45,619
well then you’re basically screwed

1298
00:47:43,040 —> 00:47:47,270
because you go ahead on your movement

1299
00:47:45,619 —> 00:47:48,920
forward and you collapse and you think

1300
00:47:47,270 —> 00:47:52,579
well that didn’t work I collapsed it’s

1301
00:47:48,920 —> 00:47:54,440
like no that’s par for the course it’s

1302
00:47:52,579 —> 00:47:56,300
not indication that you failed it’s just

1303
00:47:54,440 —> 00:47:58,250
indication that it’s really hard and

1304
00:47:56,300 —> 00:48:00,109
that when you learn something you also

1305
00:47:58,250 —> 00:48:01,790
unlearn something and the thing you

1306
00:48:00,109 —> 00:48:03,619
unlearned is probably useful and

1307
00:48:01,790 —> 00:48:04,790
unlearning it actually is painful

1308
00:48:03,619 —> 00:48:06,800
you know let’s say if you have to get

1309
00:48:04,790 —> 00:48:09,170
out of a bad relationship it’s like not

1310
00:48:06,800 —> 00:48:10,550
every not any really there isn’t any

1311
00:48:09,170 —> 00:48:13,790
relationship that’s a hundred percent

1312
00:48:10,550 —> 00:48:15,619
bad and so when you jump out of it well

1313
00:48:13,790 —> 00:48:17,420
maybe you’re in better shape but you’re

1314
00:48:15,619 —> 00:48:18,770
still lonesome and disoriented you don’t

1315
00:48:17,420 —> 00:48:20,000
know what your past was and you don’t

1316
00:48:18,770 —> 00:48:22,270
know what your present is and you don’t

1317
00:48:20,000 —> 00:48:24,110
know what your future is it’s that’s not

1318
00:48:22,270 —> 00:48:25,850
that’s why people

1319
00:48:24,110 —> 00:48:27,470
a with the devil they know instead of

1320
00:48:25,850 —> 00:48:33,170
you know looking for the devil they

1321
00:48:27,470 —> 00:48:35,330
don’t know so so anyways the fact that

1322
00:48:33,170 —> 00:48:38,150
you’re full of faults doesn’t mean you

1323
00:48:35,330 —> 00:48:40,759
have to stop and thank God for that

1324
00:48:38,150 —> 00:48:42,290
that’s a really useful thing and the

1325
00:48:40,760 —> 00:48:45,470
fact that you’re full of faults doesn’t

1326
00:48:42,290 —> 00:48:47,570
mean that you can’t learn and so you can

1327
00:48:45,470 —> 00:48:49,250
pause it an ideal and you’re gonna be

1328
00:48:47,570 —> 00:48:50,780
wrong about it but it doesn’t matter

1329
00:48:49,250 —> 00:48:52,760
because what you’re right about is

1330
00:48:50,780 —> 00:48:57,680
positing the ideal moving towards it if

1331
00:48:52,760 —> 00:48:59,870
the actual ideal isn’t conceptualize

1332
00:48:57,680 —> 00:49:01,129
perfectly well first surprise surprise

1333
00:48:59,870 —> 00:49:04,130
cuz like what are you going to do that’s

1334
00:49:01,130 —> 00:49:04,670
perfect so it doesn’t matter that it’s

1335
00:49:04,130 —> 00:49:06,470
imperfect

1336
00:49:04,670 —> 00:49:08,270
imperfect it just matters that you do it

1337
00:49:06,470 —> 00:49:10,250
and that you move forward so that’s

1338
00:49:08,270 —> 00:49:11,570
really that’s really positive news as

1339
00:49:10,250 —> 00:49:13,340
far as I’m concerned because you can

1340
00:49:11,570 —> 00:49:15,740
actually do that right you can do it

1341
00:49:13,340 —> 00:49:19,520
badly anyone can do that so that’s

1342
00:49:15,740 —> 00:49:20,689
that’s useful okay so like if you’re an

1343
00:49:19,520 —> 00:49:23,960
efficient person you would have just

1344
00:49:20,690 —> 00:49:26,180
done that but you’re not but who cares

1345
00:49:23,960 —> 00:49:28,700
you know you still end up in the in the

1346
00:49:26,180 —> 00:49:30,589
same place and maybe the trip is even

1347
00:49:28,700 —> 00:49:33,220
more interesting who knows probably —

1348
00:49:30,590 —> 00:49:33,220
interesting

1349
00:49:40,680 —> 00:49:42,740
you